When Leon Compton interviews Peter Gutwein, it's appointment listening.
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It was the case before Gutwein became Premier, and it remains so now that he's in the top job.
Compton, the host of ABC Mornings, is a deft interviewer, with a knack for getting under politicians' skin.
The Premier, meanwhile, is a man who has never backed away from a fight - in fact, you get the sense he relishes them.
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So when word got out that Gutwein was going to be calling in to the ABC on Thursday morning, you can imagine that political journalists' ears pricked up.
For the past week, the news cycle has been dominated by the state government's small business hardship grants program and a decision not to release the names of the more than 13,000 businesses that were in receipt of support through the scheme.
Labor and the Greens have accused the government of being secretive about how it's spent taxpayer dollars and have called for the information to be released.
But the government says it's relying on advice from State Growth Department secretary Kim Evans that releasing the recipients' identities to the public could affect their mental health and have negative competition-related impacts.
All of this would have been swirling in the Premier's mind when he heard Compton's voice on the other end of the line a couple of days ago.
About halfway through the interview, it became evident that Gutwein had an axe to grind with the media regarding coverage of the grants saga.
"I am going to hold firm because I am not going to allow a risk of harming Tasmanians to occur as a result of this," he told Compton. "And I would simply say to you: please, take a cold shower and think about what you're engaged in at the moment."
"I got the sense the other day in terms of the questioning I was getting from the ABC that ... for some reason, the ABC wants to run a fatwa on this.
"To be frank, your headlong rush into this just demonstrates a callous disregard for the health and wellbeing of Tasmanians. To be frank, you should be ashamed of yourself and so should the ABC."
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It was entertaining radio, listening to Gutwein go tête-à-tête with a seasoned journalist; like witnessing two prizefighters contending for glory and bragging rights.
But it wasn't a particularly becoming performance from the Premier. His appearances on Compton's show prior to becoming leader of the Liberal Party weren't markedly different - but that was when he was seen as the government's attack dog (and a ruthlessly effective one, it has to be said).
Since becoming Premier, and particularly since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, Gutwein has adopted a more conciliatory approach to politics.
So it was jarring to hear him slip back into enforcer mode and get into a shouting match live on air with a journalist. Riveting listening, sure. But not necessarily a great look for the leader of our state.
And Gutwein would realise that secrecy is seen as a hallmark of his government.
There are the buried reports, the underresourced Right to Information system, and the lack of urgency in fixing Tasmania's woefully inadequate political donation laws.
Without these factors, maybe this grants story wouldn't have snowballed to such an extent. The way things stand now, it's hard not to be at least a little bit apprehensive about whether or not the government's decision here might set a worrying precedent.
Tasmanians need to have confidence that public money is being spent appropriately. There's no suggestion that hasn't occurred here but the simple fact of the matter is the question will always remain until the recipients are disclosed.
Without full transparency and accountability, citizens are kept in the dark about where their tax dollars are going. And that's undemocratic.
It's hard not to be at least a little bit apprehensive about whether or not the government's decision here might set a worrying precedent.
I don't profess to know what it's like to run a business or to understand the trials and tribulations that come with that.
It's been said before and it bears repeating: there's absolutely no shame in seeking government support during an economically devastating pandemic.
Gutwein and his Small Business Minister Sarah Courtney have said that the Auditor-General will review the administration of the hardship grants scheme and that the names of the recipients will be provided to the parliament's Public Accounts Committee for scrutiny.
This, they say, is sufficient transparency. It's certainly better than nothing.
There remains questions over just how much money the gaming and hospitality lobbies contributed to the Liberals' state election campaign in 2018 to ensure that Labor wasn't able to implement its policy to remove poker machines from pubs and clubs. We'll probably never know the answers for sure.
Similarly, unless Gutwein backs down and discloses the hardship grant recipients, we'll never know whether or not we had anything to worry about in terms of the way the scheme was administered.
It's sometimes said that ignorance is bliss.
And for those who wield power, our ignorance is often their bliss.
- Rob Inglis is a journalist with Australian Community Media
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