A clinical practice leader was left shaking and in tears after the Department of Communities completely dismissed a service's report of 12 physically and emotionally harmful foster carers just prior to the Commission of Inquiry.
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Instead, the service was told it should change its "risk appetite" - interpreted to mean that physical and emotional harm was an accepted aspect of Tasmania's out of home care system.
Kennerley Children's Home chief executive officer Andrea Sturges had requested a policy meeting with the department after noticing a "pattern" of carers moving into the department's system, where less scrutiny occurs.
She feared that closure summaries which highlighted concerns about the carers - including why Kennerley deemed them inappropriate - were not being transferred to Communities when the carers moved across.
"We had worries about parenting styles, about discipline, about possible emotional harms and physical harms," Ms Sturges said.
More on Tasmania's out of home care system:
"Staff members had got to the point where they were emotional and quite upset about some of these carers."
She provided the department with a deidentified table with all the harms, children's ages and stages to demonstrate the seriousness of the carers' conduct.
Ms Sturges wanted the department to introduce a deregistration process, but on the day of the meeting with managers, she was instead called to the department's deputy secretary office where seven officials were gathered.
"Every person in that room was looking at the floor and weren't looking at us, which made me even more nervous because I knew a lot of them," she said.
"It sent a message, something's up. It wasn't a good meeting.
"I was virtually told that I should - and my board should - perhaps adjust our risk appetite."
When Ms Sturges and her clinical practice leader confirmed the 12 carers did not have allegations of sexual abuse against them, she was told that Kennerley Children's Home should change how it considers risk.
"At that point it was abundantly clear that unless the matters related to sexual abuse, it didn't matter," she said.
"When we left that meeting, the two of us walked to the car, I remember ... the clinical practice leader was shaking. She was pasty white. We got in the car and she burst into tears."
Physical, emotional abuse considered precursor to sexual abuse
Ms Sturges had previously worked in a senior position in child protection in Tasmania from 2010 to 2014 before moving across to Kennerley, and also had experience in the system in Queensland including policy development.
She said that physical and emotional harm - like the evidence she provided to the department - must be taken seriously for the adequate protection of vulnerable children.
"You can also see that when the emotional and physical and psychological harm is ignored when they're small, that they can go on to be much more vulnerable to sexual abuse," Ms Sturges said.
"For me, we need to focus our attention on a zero tolerance policy to any form of abuse to any child, but more particularly when we have a moral obligation as a state to protect them.
"We should be doing better."
She was left with the impression of a "skewed risk tolerance" in the department for the sake of just providing a child with a bed to sleep in.
"That frightens me," Ms Sturges said.
The Commission of Inquiry had heard evidence this week from multiple people who had been sexually abused in out of home care in Tasmania, and that their concerns were not being followed up.
Department of Communities secretary Michael Pervan said he was unaware of the meeting between Kennerley staff and the department.
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"Andrea Sturges' evidence yesterday was particularly concerning to me," he said.
"I have not had the opportunity to follow up the things that she submitted yesterday with senior staff, but I will be doing that, and I'll be doing that in consult with the secretary of the new department, Education, Children and Youth.
"There are some individual issues, and there are some big system issues there that she's raised that we really need to deal with.
"My alarm, I guess, is that Andrea didn't feel that she could come to me directly with those concerns at any time that I've been secretary."
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